A ragchew: Community and Jesus, Argument and Debate
I know it sounds negative, but sometimes it's bad experiences that make you want to blog/write more. I mean, look at Byron [poem], and he's by no means the best example! I tend to write long e-mails to Christian friends. Some excerpts end up on the net, like this one. I don't change places, names, etc. I don't have that much time. I trust my readers, though. Love one another like Jesus loves you. Think long and hard before you flame me for anything I say here, but if you want to get in touch, then do.
Things are alright here. Exam pressure, I suppose, but I must say, my mind's not on it. There's just too much going on in the world. Jesus is starting to take centre-stage in my house, interestingly. He jumps into conversations; motivates the 6 of us to do things that we wouldn't normally. People have been creeping out to house groups, and whatnot. It's really encouraging.
Got a story. I had a something of a debate with some people I met here in 2002. It was on election night after I'd seen "Blood Brothers" at one of the community theatres here, so afterwards in the bar (and after we'd all caught up), someone mentioned politics (very topical), another mentioned religion (what I find to be most people's wind-up (including my own)). When asked why I didn't vote, I explained myself fully (I'm an activist, not apathetic), but the only way I could do it was by saying who/what I stand for. The guys took what I said to bits, but we found ourselves at an impasse - they could tell I was working to see the Kingdom come, and in all honesty, they couldn't deny that a community founded on love for God (well, some of them vehmently deny his existance) and one another was a good idea, but, as these discussions often do, the evening came to an end with them thinking that all their politics and free markets and stuff would be an effective stop-gap! No one actually wants to do anything toward making that thought that God has planted in everyone a reality. They just want it to happen without them having to do the work.
Prepare for another instalment (if you can bear it...!), when I've worked out how I can be effective for Jesus. It's no good winning over people's minds, any more. Anyone who studies law or history or anything else discursive can win arguments for Jesus!! I suppose we just have to pray that getting people thinking is enough to give the Holy Ghost a chance to get a foot in the door. We're like the leaven, lifting everyone else up. I think.
Got a story. I had a something of a debate with some people I met here in 2002. It was on election night after I'd seen "Blood Brothers" at one of the community theatres here, so afterwards in the bar (and after we'd all caught up), someone mentioned politics (very topical), another mentioned religion (what I find to be most people's wind-up (including my own)). When asked why I didn't vote, I explained myself fully (I'm an activist, not apathetic), but the only way I could do it was by saying who/what I stand for. The guys took what I said to bits, but we found ourselves at an impasse - they could tell I was working to see the Kingdom come, and in all honesty, they couldn't deny that a community founded on love for God (well, some of them vehmently deny his existance) and one another was a good idea, but, as these discussions often do, the evening came to an end with them thinking that all their politics and free markets and stuff would be an effective stop-gap! No one actually wants to do anything toward making that thought that God has planted in everyone a reality. They just want it to happen without them having to do the work.
Prepare for another instalment (if you can bear it...!), when I've worked out how I can be effective for Jesus. It's no good winning over people's minds, any more. Anyone who studies law or history or anything else discursive can win arguments for Jesus!! I suppose we just have to pray that getting people thinking is enough to give the Holy Ghost a chance to get a foot in the door. We're like the leaven, lifting everyone else up. I think.
Tuesday, May 10. 2005 at 22:57 (Reply)
Dear James,
Your heart's in the right place - but that doesn't mean you don't have to follow the path you are on to the end (you can see the signpost saying you're almost there). One last sprint will see you at the end of your current marathon - and the winning line will be worth the exhilaration you'll feel on crossing it.
Then a rest to catch your breath before you decide on the next challenge.
Lots of doors are standing open for you and you need to ask Jesus "what's next?"
Wait, and listen.
There will be an answer. You're not on your own.
Keep on in there.
God bless.
With love
M
xxxxxxxx
Saturday, May 21. 2005 at 01:07 (Link) (Reply)
Some interesting points made here. Firstly and most importantly, anyone who doesn't vote, though they may not agree, is being apathetic, simply because there are so many for whom this is the case, that those for whom it is not are subsumed into the majority. Secondly, there are, alas, major problems with arguing that one does not vote for religious reasons. If, as I understand it, Christians believe that, on a hugely and almost crassly over-simplified level, everyone should be nice to everyone else, and that justice should be done, what possible reason can there be for not exercising one's right to assist those who are most likely to see that this is the case in gaining the means so to do? Thirdly, there is a slight issue with this article, in that it is not explicit: what exactly is this "thought that God has planted in everyone"? The way in which this article is worded gives the impression (in my opinion almost certainly falsely) that the author is of the opinion that those who do not hold the same opinion as him are, basically, lazy, ill-informed, and downright wrong. If this were to be the case, this would be just the sort of opinion that gives Christianity a bad name, and should be avoided at all costs. It sounds like a self-righteous rant against those who "dare" to disagree with the thought that there may be a God, or that there is a rigid way of adhering to Christian codes. I know that this is not how this is supposed to sound, but wording should be chosen very carefully when debating a subject as emotive as this.
Saturday, May 21. 2005 at 01:33 (Reply)
I would be inclined to doubt the validity of a statement that made Christians out to be folks who think that "everyone should be nice to everyone else". Many people do this every day but are manifestly not followers of Jesus (their approach is a misguided equivalent of the making of jam for your neighbour, who then makes jam for his neighbour, etc. with no Kingdom/community advantage).
The central issue is one of love, not, "being nice". I intended only to indicate (in a roundabout way and with frequent rant-like diversions) that love for one another through Christ would be the goal, and that a society founded on such principles (and other related, scripture-centred ones) would have little use for a system of governance anything like our present one. And that doesn't add up to a theocrasy, either.
Thanks to all for comments. Much appreciated.
Saturday, May 21. 2005 at 01:16 (Link) (Reply)
Sorry, and another thing... I find it very difficult to believe that the end of the evening led to my colleague's interlocutors being left with the impression that "their politics and free markets and stuff" would be "an effective stop-gap". Nobody, but nobody, is that unintelligent. It is perfectly possible to believe that "a community founded on love for God and one another is a good idea" while also believing that "politics and free markets and stuff" are also a good idea. Removing God from the equation (which, unfortunately, I must), should it not be possible to subscribe to fundamental Christian principles (love thy neighbour etc.), while also subscribing to the concept of democracy? In fact the two are very closely bound; they deal with liberty and fairness. The most likely explanation is that those who voted on May 5th are actually not only exercising their constitutional right to participate in democracy, but also their God-given right to participate in the furtherment of the human race, and so, the argument that politics are a "stop-gap" until a universally loving Christian community comes along seems rather crass.
Saturday, May 21. 2005 at 19:15 (Link) (Reply)
Valid point, but avoid use of words such as 'misguided' where religious discussions are involved. Sounds opinionated and closed to other points of view.
Saturday, May 21. 2005 at 19:42 (Reply)
Just to admit my earlier capitulation over IM: yes, I agree that making jam for your neighbour is when it's perpetuating a needless cycle is misguided only when you're doing it to achieve something that it won't. Very good point.